If the top above the cabinets is open and shows that would rule out small high hats in the cabinets. If however you are able to do that they would be the best light possible. If not then you need some type of low voltage puck. If you visit you local electrical supply/lighting store, they should be able to supply you with lights that are compatible with wood cabinets and xenon instead of halogen.

If you do find later that the fluorescents clash a little with the incandescents, you can get a warmer bulb to change the look. If you want to go with an alternative to fluorescent you can see what a xenon bulb fixture here.
Task Lighting

We will use halogen in the ceiling cans in the new kitchen but I would strongly recommend the Reveal to replace any old incandescent bulbs. You won't believe the difference.

I am using glass shelves, but I thought that because my cabinets are longer than standard the light may not be strong enough to make it all the way down to the bottom. We are planning on having our cabinets go all the way to the 8' ceiling... I think I was reading about xenon pucks for inside the cabinets as an alternative to halogen, but I just want something that is a) not going to get too hot and b) is dimmable.

So what are high hats? Also, any advice on where we should put our recessed can lights in our plan? When we put the skylight in we have to reinstall our can lighting anyway since they have to redo the ceiling. We currently have six 6" cans in our kitchen, with a seventh one on a separate switch over the sink.

Thank you again for being so generous with your advice!!!

If you look at WAC lighting's website, they have some mini low voltage display lights for your situation also. Could you show on plan where the skylight is going?

You are indeed kind for helping us lighting illiterate.
A few questions:

--My contractor has speced 6 Nora brand low voltage can lights for my 10x11 kitchen. Is this a reputable brand? Also, for my undercab lights, he told me if I wanted Xenon, it would cost more than the Nora halogen pucks he initailly estimated. Do xenon cost more?

--My contractor advised putting the 6 cans for my 10x11 kitchen about one foot out from the counter, saying that if they were placed at the counter edge (I told him I'd read that was proper placement) that the light would shine too much on the face of the cabinets, and center of kitchen would be dark. (Remember, I'm doing undercabinet lighting, too.) So I'm thinking of using a 200 watt semi-flush mount light fixture in center of kicthen and putting the cans over the counter edges anyway. Sound good? Too much lighting? What watt/power (?) bulbs would you use for six cans in a kitchen of this size that has a general ambiant light?

Thanks the cans in the cabinets might just do the trick - :)

I've attached a link to the plan with where the skylight is going to go - basically , the center of the skylight lines up with the center of the window, and the skylight is centered within the kitchen ceiling. We want to flare it as much as possible, but that will be determined by where the recessed can lights go.

Thanks again for your help! We were just about losing our minds trying to figure out lighting this weekend...thank goodness for your post!

How are you doing? What stage are you at now?

I am going to be upfront and I really don't want to create confusion or any dismay for you but I have to be honest with my opinions. I don't like using low voltage cans in a kitchen. The spread is not very good and because the light is rather intense it creates a more spotty type of light as opposed to a nice even spread which is my preference. The same goes for puck lights under the cabinet. The only time we use pucks is when there is a flat bottom cabinet. In that case there is not much choice. We did a large kitchen a few years back and the decorater insisted on low voltage mini cans. In order to light it properly, there were 42 recessed lights in the kitchen.

Judging by the size of the kitchen and without a layout I would say 8 small cans seems more like it. As far as having enough light. With the overhead cans, a center fixture and UC lights you should be okay even with the low voltage cans.
Remember, this is my opinion, doesn't mean I am always right.
Hope this helps

I don't want a spotty look. It's exactly what I hate about can lights. So to avoid getting the spotty look, instead of using low voltage, I use... what? I want to be able to tell my contractor exactly the brand and wattage for the cans that will create a diffused look... And is he going to tell me that low voltage is more energy efficient? As for the undercabinet lighting, I don't want it spotty, so so I get xenon strips? Brand you like?

If any of this info is on your website, let me know and I'll cruise your site!

For the cans there are several brands that are all good and reasonable. Halo, Juno, Lightolier(expensive), Commercial Electric, and there is a company Elco that are relatively cheap and a good product as well. In different parts of the country there are different dominant brands so it's tough for me to make the brand call.

For undercabinet lighting I prefer either low voltage linear lighting which you can view when your browsing or fluoresents. Xenon bulbs are a good way to go with the low voltage. Just remember that any good low voltage system is going to be pricey.

If you still have questions, please ask.

There is some other things you can do but it would involve changing the lights.

I do have a question though. Where are you going to be using these? 19 watts is on the dim side. Fine for a general light but not bright enough for say a kitchen for instance.

you are so good! Regarding the xenon undercabinet lighting reflecting the cabinet above. Is there a particular type of xenon undercabinet light you recommend?

My sister has these little bulbs, progressive brand?? I know many go with the strip, Kichler or others.

We are going with light colored Silestone, and have not installed any undercabinet lights yet although we are wired for it. Have not purchased anything yet, I am soo glad I caught this thread. I would never have known.

Thanks for your response.

Susan

Now for the other aspect. You have to see how much room you have to play with. You certainly don't want any lights coming down lower than the light rail. The juno comes down about 1" maybe a tad more while the Task lighting product is 7/8".

As far as progressive lighting I am not familiar with any linear lighting but if you have any pictures I would like to see what they have. The only undercabinet lighting I know of from them is independent undercabinet fixtures. Kichler also makes to the best of my knowledge only independent fixtures, but I have used them and it is a good product.

One other point while on the subject. I was on the phone with a cabinet installer that we work with and we were discussing a problem with all undercabinet lighting tonight. Unfortunately none of these lights is wireless and the nature of undercabinet lights is they need a wire which comes from the wall. Since we want these linear systems in the front the wire shows if you are say sitting at a table across the room or in the case of reflection we spoke about here you can actually see the wire when looking down at countertop. We think we have a solution but it is kind of difficult to explain it here. The first time we try it I will post some pictures if it works. Just something to think about when planning the lights out for now

On the undercabinet lighting, what do you mean by independent? That they have their own transformer? I'd heard that the Kichlers were good/easy to install because they have thier own built-in transformer so that the electrician doesn't have to install one someplace else. Will this save money (or will the $52 a pop compensate for this).

Groschuni: Do you have any pictures your can share with us?

I was hoping you could provide a few quick comments on appropriate lighting for my own kitchen reno. Here's the deal: I have a narrow and long kitchen (8' x 18') and was thinking of going with two rows of four 5" cans, but now I think 8 cans in that space might be too bright. An alternative is to go with a strip right down the middle of the kitchen (maybe a can every 3.5'). I'm planning on UC lighting as well and will go xenon strips as you suggest.

Thanks much!

EG

PS. Kitchen ceiling is 9.5' high, blue safari Silestone counters, red birch cabs, and cream/blue cork floor.

Jibba,
First thing is I hope we can see finished pictures, those color combinations sound like it will look great. The row of lights down the middle I would probably try to talk you out of. One thing about recessed lights are they don't throw light out laterally. The middle of the kitche floor will be lit great but I am guessing you don't prepare your meals on the floor :) Could you show me or send me a kitchen layout. I'm wondering if you have cabinets on both sides because that would only leave 4 feet between them on the floor and 6 feet on the ceiling. One alternative may be smaller cans like 4" or to stay with 5" and stagger the layout if you follow me. If you don't understand just shout and I'll make a drawing.

ltngbolt - where should I be moving these lights? 26" out?? And where should the corner lights go. Right now like I said, they are almost positioned right in the middle of the corner part of the countertop. It just clears the cabinet fronts in the corner. Also, I don't have a separate light over the sink. The can was almost centered over the sink so the electrician thought it should be fine. I took that light bulb out but I'm still getting a shadow into the sink. So should I be moving that light closer to the wall to make it truly over the sink? I'm trying to get a pic so you can see what I'm talking about (they are 6" Halo cans) and from a previous email he said he set them:

*I have them set 2' away from the upper cabinets and 1' off the base cabinets. (To the center of the lights.)*

So what do I need to do in order to not have shadows? I can't believe I have to change this :(

Thanks for your help!
Gina

On that note, sorry if this ground has been covered before. I have my eye on a lighting fixture that can be installed as a pendant or mounted on the ceiling. (I have 8 ft ceilings.) The fixture is a three arm black metal chandolier with candle-type bulbs. It is 13" high.

I always like the charm of these fixtures, but the glare from the bulbs can be annoying. It is only 60 watts, so I don't expect it to be useful for lighting workspace. And it would not be a style for the little shades, which I know could help with the glare problem.

If I did buy it, I am not sure where I would put it. Over the sink? Over the small farmhouse table island? Near the fireplace?

I will have recessed or track lighting for "real" light.

Any thoughts on how I can incorporate this fixture into my kitchen plan?

Thanks for you thoughts.

On a note about the glare. You can help diminish that a bit with a dimmer obviously but there are also some cool bulbs I think they are called spunglo. They have a wax coated like string covering the bulb and take the edge off the glare factor. I may be wrong about the name. I have to check.

I agree. My favorite idea was over the island. I was just worried because it will just be for decoration, not for really lighting up the workspace.

As a follow up question, if I center the fixture over the 43" X 23" island, how close can I go with recessed lights? Or would track lights be better because you can point them toward the island from farther away? I want to be sure there is good lighting for the island, but not have the fixtures all massed together in a clump, iykwim.

Thanks again.

Thanks in advance.

Cheryll 1,
They can be right up angainst the ceiling joists if need be, not a problem. The reason the insulation is not so much for the heat from the can but because it restricts air flow and will cause the cans to overheat. So as long as you keep the insulation clear of the fixtures, the joists are no problem. Your local building codes though may require you to use IC air tight cans if there is an attic above. In that case the insulation can stay and you end up with a situation where your not getting heat loss through the fixtures.

Metro 58
As far as the difference between low voltage and line voltage UC lighting it has mostly to do with the type of fixture. Fluorescents, there is only one way to go, line voltage. Puck lights can be either line or low voltage. The problem with line voltage on these is it is hard to do a neat job and stay within the code. With low voltage I can put the transformer under the sink or in a basement and all the wiring is hidden. No wiring in cabinets above.

The good linear type systems are low voltage which allows them to be very slimline. Personally, I would much rather work with the low voltage types because it is just less restrictive.

About the question as to recessed lights making the ceiling look dark or not well lit. It depends on the overall makeup of the room. In a room with a lot of dark colors that will absorb the light the answer is yes it may. In a room with light colors though, you get enough reflective light to light everything well, even the ceiling. In a kitchen, if this is a concern, it can be easily overcome with a pendant or two over an island or peninsula.

I'm now doing my prelim lighting plan, and I hope you can help me with a few questions:

The working part of my kitchen is about 10x12, with a 30x48" island. The eat-in part adds another 12x8 feet. Overall, the room is long and somewhat narrow. I'll have the usual recessed cans in the working "L" of the kitchen, and a hanging fixture of some kind over the kitchen table. When you're at the kitchen table, you'll be able to look down the length of the kitchen and see the chimney wall hood over the range, which I'm going to put backsplash tile around all the way to the ceiling. If I put pendants over the island, these will be almost directly in line with this view of the hood, and I thought they'd make an already somewhat crowded area look even busier. For this reason, I'm thinking of just using recessed lights over the island, with nothing hanging down. The island will be used for prep and buffet serving, no seating. What do you think? Can recessed lights give adequate light there? And if so, how many over the island (1 or 2)?

Also, I have a 7-foot long window above my sink, on the long part of the L. Right now, I have only 1 recessed light centered above my sink, in the soffit above the window. If I put in two instead , evenly spaced under a valance I'll use to disguise the soffit, then there wouldn't be one directly above the sink, but to either side. Is that standard and adequate? There would be one centered above my head as I stand at the sink, outside the countertop.

Also, regarding UC lighting, I was planning for xenon low-voltage lights--but I'm concerned about the reflection and the hot spots you've mentioned. My granite will be on the light side, but it will be glossy. Is there a way to minimize the reflection (I don't really want to look at the granite and see what's under the cabs!)--would dimmers help, or a different kind of xenon bulb?

You've mentioned both Juno Trac 12 and Task lighting for UC. Are these interchangeable, or are they each appropriate for different applications?

Thank you again for all the great information!

As far as the island goes 2 high hats should give you good coverage. If I can suggest something. We just did a job where the customer wasn't sure about pendants or recessed lights over the island. We left wires in the ceiling and they later decided to go with pendants. You may want to take this approach. Having those pendants over the island can help define space and with some of the great looking pendants they have today that hang on a thin wire, they aren't too obstructive. I have done it both with recessed and pendants many times. Both ways work so it is a matter of preference for you.

The recessed lights over the sink sounds good. Having one to either side is actually better than one directly overhead. The light splash criss crosses and you get less of a shadow. I would definitely go with the 2 lights.

On the UC lights if you keep the lighting near the front edge of the cabinets it will help cut down on reflective glare. If your granite is light colored this shouldn't be too much of a problem. There is only so much you can do, so don't make yourself nuts about it. Keeping them near the front and hiding the wire going to them is usually enough to keep it from being a problem.

The types I mentioned, Juno trac 12 and Task lighting are both about the same thing. The main difference is quality, Task being on top and size Task being about 1/2 thinner. One big advantage in my eyes of the Juno is the ability to add or subtract bulbs.

Thanks so much for that information; very helpful! I'll probably be purchasing the UC lights myself for the electrician to install, so part of the decision will be a cost one, but since I have to recess the cab bottoms to receive the lights, I'll probably want to go with the smaller ones.

The reason different bulbs of the same wattage have different lumen output can be a number of things. In the case of fluorescents, it is the coating on the inside of the bulb. The best example I could give you would be a 60 watt incandescent bulb. A frosted, clear and yellow frosted, all have different lumen outputs even though they all use the same amount of energy.

Thanks for all your help, and I'm sorry about your dog.

I am in the process of designing my kitchen, and have a question about the lighting. It will be 14 x 8, the general work area is 10 x 8. Because I'm in a high rise with concrete ceilings, my options are limited. Currently I have a big ugly flourescent fixture which will be gone ASAP. A lighting designer suggested putting in another large ceiling fixture. I'm wondering instead about putting in track lighting down the center of the kitchen, but am not sure if that will look spotty. One wall is a half wall open to the living/dining room, the other will have no overhead cabinets, but a few shelves over the sink and work areas. I was planning to put some lights on the bottom of the shelves as a substitute for under-cabinet lighting, or using pin lights near the ceiling, but am now concerned about the reflections given that I'll be using dark granite. Any suggestions on one fixture vs. track lighting? Also, price wise I think the one fixture will be a lot less expensive...true?

Thanks....

I see two choices. Go with a nice, and they do make some nice ones, fluorecent fixture. 4 foot with 4 bulbs. It will far surpass overall good lighting to any incandescent single fixture you can put there. The other option is as you said, track lighting. Sounds like a galley kitchen and if that is so track can actually be installed from a center point out to both sides. In other words you could have a row on each side of the kitchen legthwise. There are some nice small heads you can get today that will not be so obtrusive as to take away from your kitchen.

If you need any suggestions for fixtures let me know and I'll be glad to find some for ideas for you.

Doing a complete kitchen redesign. Using Home Depot Premier cabinets. Planning to use a Whirpool popup downdraft unit behind our 36" natural gas cooktop. However, don't plan on ANY overhead ventilation. Our cabinets bump up higher over the cooktop (as if there would be a micro/or ventilation hood), but there will not be one. Would like to install some GOOD QUALITY lighting above the cooktop, and perhaps install a sheet of stainless on the bottom surface of the short cabinets to ease in cleaning, and protect bottom surface from heat/fire.
Has anyone done anything like this? How did you form your stainless sheet (or similar product) to the bottom of the cabinet?
What type of lighting do you recommend? - Would like to go with some energy-efficient lights if at all possible. Should I only consider halogen (for light quality, brightness)? Or are low-voltage or fluorescent OK? Brands? Models? Suggestions? Are there any pre-formed small-profile hoods, w/out ventilation, and built-in lights available? Any help, suggestions would be appreciated.

KenBradley,
For your hood situation there are several options you have. In regards to sheet metal I have never seen that done but if I was going to do that I would find a local heating and ventalation company. They can fabricate sheet metal in any design you need and it is usually reasonable enough. As for the lights, if you want the most efficient fluorescents is the way to go. As for the size, as big as you can fit in the space alotted. For alternatives, since you mentioned halogen, you could go with mini high hats if you have the space to mount them. 2 or 3 would be good. There is also another option. Depending on the space you have companies make vent hoods with no exhaust fan and just lights. This would solve 2 problems with one solution. Look up fan companies that make hoods like broan, nutone. Look also advantage mobile home products.

maggie MI,
There are places you can post pictures on the web for free. One place is snapfish.com Or you can email me the drawing and I will post it here for you. You can email me by going to my page next to my name.

redredwine,
That's a tough thing to do. Why don't you want glass shelves? Without the glass shelves the only way to get light on every shelf is with light on every shelf. With frameless cabinets it's even harder because there is no place to conceal anything. The only thing I can suggest is Satco makes a very slim tube light encased in a metal shield that comes in colors like black, white, chrome, brass etc. They are about 1/2" x 1/2" and come in different lengths, and if you electrician is adnventurous they can even be cut a little for perfect fits, although it is not necessary. With those you can place one under each shel near the back.

I thought I had seen this somewhere, but cannot find it. Do you know of any zenon bulbs that can be used in vent-hoods to replace the halogens? Is this possible? TIA.

There are a few things to consider if you are planning this. One, which is very important is these need to be secured properly. If the cabinet bottoms are going to be on the thin side 1/2" or less or a skin, there is not enough meat to hold a screw in well. Unlike UC lights which just get touched to turn on and off, plugmold gets pushed and pulled quite a lot when plugging and unplugging appliances. Another consideration is when you have appliances plugged in your cords drape down from the top and go right in front of the backsplash you were trying so hard not to tarnish. Then there is the convenience factor, bending over and looking up everytime you want to plug something in.

Part of the reason I think people end up going with plugmold is they are not made aware of some of the options in colors they can get the receptacles in. weed30 had a great picture of a tile backsplash in which the receptacles blended so well they were nearly invisible. Besides the colors that are available, they can actually be made to match a color of your choice.

You have been so helpful will all my questions, but I need to throw another one out here.

Our kitchen is connected to a family room, so as a part of the remodel, we will also be doing some minor changes in the FR, which includes installation of lighting. As a part of this, I was planning to install recessed cans with wall washers in three areas where we need lighting, but basically want to light up pictures, etc. I didn't want to go with low voltage as I really don't like those plug in type bulbs, and I didn't want to go with 6 inch cans because they're so big. That basically leaves me with 4" or 5". I haven't been able to find a manufacturer who makes the scoop wallwasher trim in 5", so I think I'm left with 4". However, in 4", the Juno's seem only to take R bulbs and not PAR, which I was hoping for, and I don't know how wide the beam spread would be. I was guessing they should be placed about 2 to 3 feet from the wall and three feet apart. I'm guessing that the pictures would be about 3 feet down on the wall. Any suggestions? I really need help on this one.

Thanks in advance.

It seems to me that if the can light is located directly above the edge of the counter, that would create the worst shadows. I mean as you stand at the counter, and lean over it, you'd be blocking the light wouldn't you?

Plus, if you're standing directly below the can light, your head would feel the heat from the light. No?

I'm just trying to understand since I know nothing about lighting!

Thanks for answering this as I'm sure the answer is obvious and I'm just being stupid!

I've come across the names of several brands of undercabinet lighting but don't recall seeing Alico mentioned. They seem to be significantly less expensive than Kichler (at least in the store we saw them in). Do you have any knowledge of their products or any opinions you could share?

Many thanks!

Thanks

Lowspark,
There are no stupid questions. As far as the placement it's my opinion, doesn't mean it is a rule. Here is my thoughts on the matter though. The light comes out of the recessed light in a cone at about 60 degrees. If you visualize that cone looking from the side as you move the light away from the cabinet the light angle starts to go under the cabinet. If the light is very close to the top cabinet the cabinet itself prevents the light from going under at all, creating a distinctive line or shadow. By pulling the light out to about a foot from the top cabinet the effect is that some of that light makes it under the cabinet and onto the counter deeper back. Also at a foot off it is still withing a range where your not creating a shadow when working on the countertop. Think about it, when you are working on a counter in a kitchen do you ever lean so far foward that your head is hitting the cabinet doors.

All this is not to say they can't be 6" off and still not be effective. If you look at my pages about recessed lighting there are some diagrams that show the angle of light and intentsity that may help to visualize it. In regards to the heat I can only say in 25 years and doing electric in about 200-300 kitchens a year for the last 10 I have never had anyone complain about the heat from the bulbs. I also rarely use more than an 85 watt bulb and maybe that's a factor.

chronos,
I am not familiar with that brand. I did take a look and they look good in the pictures. I couldn't tell you quality without working with them. I like xenon and think it's a good choice for UC lighting. If you do use them please let me know how it works out. I am always looking for different product options.

abm760,
About the closest thing I can come up with is a Halo H274R which is a remodel can fluorescent and airtight. But it's a normal 6" size. I don't know of any 4" fluorescents recessed cans that are airtight. That is a small package to fit whats needed for that type of fixture. If you really need to go with a 4" I would suggest a low voltage can which of course would not be fluorescent. Providing you have the height in the ceiling, I think a normal size can like the 6" would look fine in that size alcove.

Just read about your dog. So sorry to read of your loss.

When using rope above upper cabinets how far apart should the two ropes be spaced? Should the pair be placed toward the front, center or rear of the cabinet?

Thanks

I'm taking your advice -- Halo H-5ic which is a 5" can with a white baffle. Reveal light bulbs since I'm going to have light cabs. If you can look at my kitchen layout and tell me where to place the hi-hats (recess lights).

Task or Juno for the underpart of cabs. Should I place under very cabinet?

But what should I use in the glass cabinets?

While shopping I saw 3" - 4" recess lights should I use this size over the sink area? Or can you suggest something else?

How many light switches do you think I need?

Sorry, for all these questions. As you can tell it's just mind boggling....

Thanks.......

Also, we have a dropped 7' ceiling over the "work" part of the kitchen. This dropped ceiling is 7x8 feet between the upper cabinets, with joists every 2'. Would eight 5" cans (or even 4" cans), 3 along each countertop side and 2 in the middle, be a good layout? If we put them along the counter lines, there is too much space in the middle. The refrigerator sticks out at one corner; should we just position the lights symmetrically anyway? What wattage? We'd like to try the Reveal lights.

Lastly, for undercabinet lighting, we started getting carried away with Xenon$$ fixtures. But how about GE Profile - anyone comment?

Thanks to all of you for a great forum.

kayjay,
I can't find anything but it may be out there. If it's what I think it is the bulb is a short medium based halogen. I can't find a xenon to replace it with. Don't be too concerned about the heat output. A halogen is only 30% hotter than a xenon.

abm760,
Although I don't think you'll find them listed, I don't see why you couldn't use a compact fluorescent in those fixtures providing you could find one that would fit in the fixture, and that shouldn't be a problem.

cruzzinpattis and maro I'll address your questions tomorrow. Long day finishing a kitchen today and I am so tired my heads about to hit the keyboard.

A very important extra question - (how many do I get? I am so appreciative) If I have undercabinet lighting, is it still important to have the recessed lights at the same line as the counter edge? Or can I just have recessed lights toward the middle, and have less?

You really are a gem! Thank you for being so helpful and spending so much time here. We're in the middle of a whole house renovation, and I know that lighting can "make it or break it", especially in the kitchen, so I've been hanging on every word of your advice.

We only have one shot to do this right because all of our recessed lights aren't going into regular drywall that can be re-done and patched. We have an old beach cottage that originally was a vaulted wooden uninsulated ceiling, paneled with tongue and groove panels sloping on each side with a big beam down the center at about 12' high at the center peak. During the renovation, we're putting our wiring behind the vaulted panels and cutting holes into them where we want recessed lights, and then we're going to put some insulation in and put the roof on. The house is a single story. We've been told over and over again by our electrician and our contractor to get it right the first time because we may not be able to put in lighting later since most of the wiring is being run through the ceiling and won't be accessible later (as I understand it).

So this is my question - Are there any standard rules for placing recessed lights in vaulted ceilings? Our electrician is using mostly 6" cans, spaced at about 4'-5' apart in some areas and further apart in others, and will use an eyeball device to help direct the light straighter down. I'm worried both about the direction of the light and the strength of it since the placement of many of the cans throughout the ceiling puts them up high on the vault, towards the center beam. I know you usually advise putting cans about 5' apart, and 30" off the wall, but I'm wondering if this rule of thumb applies with a vaulted ceiling, sloping on each side. We'll be using incandescent instead of halogen (hope this was the right decision, but our electrician convinced us it was nicer light and is less expensive). He seems good but not necessarily up on all the latest stuff.

In addition to the recessed lights, which will serve as general lighting throughout our great room/kitchen area, all of which is within this large vaulted area, we will also use a chandelier for the dining area, undercabinet lights in the kitchen and 3 LBL pendants over the penninsula. Also, we're having 2 outlets put in the floor on either side of where the sofa will be (there's only one logical spot for sofa placement) so that we can use floor lamps. So, it's not as if the recessed lights will be the only lighting, but we also don't want the cans to be frustratingly sparse or directed wrong.

One more question - have you ever done undercabinet lights under open shelving, and if so, do you have any words of advice? We're doing open shelving in most of our kitchen instead of upper cabinets and we're planning to put xenon or halogen undercabinet lighting under the bottom shelves. The cabinetmaker will create some type of a lip on the front of the shelves to hide the lighting, but I hope it will truly be hidden and, more importantly, that a shelf will be sturdy enough to hold the lighting. I was going to put plugmold up there, too, until I read your post and have now thought better of it.

I greatly appreciate any help you can offer. By the way, have you ever thought about opening up an internet electrial consulting/advice website? You'd probably have a thriving business; there's such pent-up demand for your information and experience, and I feel guilty asking for such valuable free advice. I just moved to CA from the east coast, and if I was still in your area, I'd be joining what is I'm sure a long list of your customers!

So sorry to hear about your dog.

All the best,
Carli

cruzinpattis,
Your link is coming up file not found so I can't see the kitchen layout, maybe you can try that again. As to your questions. The small 4" recessed lights over the sink works well. The UC lighting IMO if your doing it you may as well do all the cabinets and on a switch of it's own if possible. Inside the cabinets either mini high hats or approved pucks. If I can see those drawings, I'll try to help with the layout and switching.

maro,
If I could see the actual layout it would help greatly. Using the small recessed cans you get a lot less of a spread of light. For that reason the further you go into the middle of the room the less light you are going to have where you need it most, on the work areas. GE Profile is not a bad fixture at all and fluorescents as I have said are a very cost effective way of lighting the counters. The other alternative that will also allow dimming is Kichler's. They cost about $15 more a fixture than fluorescents. Your question about wiring strategies for all this undercabinet wiring is a good one. I am working on some information and once I get it together I'll post something about it. If I could see a layout I will gladly offer more advice in the way of layout.

mgb4us,
Thank you for the kind words. Track lighting in a kitchen is not my first choice but it can be done in some cases. First you need to have the room. The tops of the cabinet doors need to be low enough so they don't interfere with the track heads. So if your upper cabinets have about a foot of space above them it will work. The track can be installed parallel to the counters in a U shape like the kitchen and about 3 feet off the wall. The best type of track and heads would be something low voltage to keep the size as small as possible. One problem with big track heads is they become a focal point. Most people after spending thousands on cabinets prefer to have the kitchen be the focal point not the light fixtures (other than some pendants of course). On the upside of the track is the fact that heads can be moved, directed and added if more are needed. So if your decor requires it, track is certainly a feasible alternative to recessed lighting. As I always tell people, you have to decide what you really want and then we can make that work. If you had no preference then recessed lighting would be my choice if it fits the decor.

carli,
Thank you also for the kind words. I am going to take another post later to answer you since there are a few issues. If there is any chance I can see a layout it would be helpful. Also how high are the ceilings? and what angle if you know?

The Task line of undercabinet lighting--could you tell me what would determine when you'd use a Luche light and when you'd use a Lumere? All I can tell is that the Luche creates a "bright" light, whereas the Lumere creates a "moderately bright" light, or words to that effect...they both look the same in the pics to me.

Do you have thoughts/experience with both of these lines?

thanks, and apologies in advance if I've missed your commenting on this already--

The GE linkable "full-spectrum" fluorescents carried at HD that are energy star rated--I wasn't clear on what you were saying about the term "full-spectrum", other than that it's misleading, right? But compared to other fluorescents, it would be a more natural, less traditional 'fluorescent' look, right? Thanks again for any thoughts on this...

Happy Spring Celebration, too :)

I wish I could post the layout, but I don't know how to do that. Sorry! I realize I was asking a lot of you to comment without seeing an actual layout. I'll find out what angle and exactly how high the ceiling is, and will report back to you. Even if you can't offer specific advice on my project, I'm still learning a lot from your general lighting advice. Thanks again,

Carli

Let's see if you can view at this site.
If not, can I also email on to you?

Thanks,
Chris (Long Island)

Regardless of my meticulous drawing, and husband's meticulous measuring, a really ridiculous miscommunication took place.

My mistake was in not putting in a dimension from the wall to the first light, even though the drawing did show the countertop line. DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING.

I think the lights may be spaced close enough (due to joists and other things, three lights are only 28" apart, and I did use 6" cans) that shadows may not be that bad - ? Also, the colors are very light. When the current goes on, I'll let you know. . . .

Thanks again,

Maro

I don't want to block the beautiful view out those windows, but we need to replace the flourescent flush ceiling light over the kitchen table. Should we replace it with another "close to the ceiling fixture", a pendant light, or recessed? Which one would give the best light over the breakfast nook, be the least obtrusive, and look the best? I figure it could hang down no more than 24" so as not to obstruct the view out that window at all, keeping in mind that we have a 100 year old farmhouse type home.

Depending upon what you recommend for over the table, what then should go over the sink. We will also have a similarly beautiful view and matching casement windows (but only 43 inches wide by about 40 inches high) over the sink.

We will have potlights in the main area of the kitchen.

Thanks very much.

Did I ask something wrong? Or something dumb? I'm sorry if I did...I could really use your thoughts on the luche vs. lumere...

If you have anymore questions I'd be happy to answer
Paul